i can appreciate the effort mate, but maybe you should practice your english a bit more before you translate doujins like this
wouldn't hurt to sus out some other higher rated translations for tips on how to do stuff like formatting and type-setting
also that font hurts my eyes a bit lol, a really basic font that i find holds up no matter the doujin is Laffayette Comic Pro
again, i can see you've put some effort into this and that's great, but sometimes no translations is better than a rough translation
wish you luck mate

Base +9, JBHUTT +6, Kau -6, CaptainCaptain95 +6, herpderp5545 +8, Grimmy32 +10, xerorushbluh +6, pizzapicante27 +6

Is there a tag for machine translations? This one desperately needs it.

Base +6, JBHUTT +6, Kau -6, Sanguine09 +7, thenewdrax +7, pizzapicante27 +6

@beazulbub there are tags for it. other:rough translation and language:rewrite. You'd have to prove you have JP knowledge to add these tags tho.

Base +6, JBHUTT +6, popcap991 +6, JukanX +26, Mrsuperhappy -40, scooter1171 -26, Tizatln +7, Roxolan +6

Translation is better then nothing. alot of hakaba are most likely never going to be translated for years. Some Hakaba have been out for almost 10 years and never been translated. Thank you for translating this

Base +6, thatasiandude -6, popcap991 +6, fabiopenz -6, cutegyaru -16, Komyaku1306 -6, Kau +6, Scumbini -30, Waitugreat -28, orasmase -8, Link128 -15, Seiphied -7, iamdolfin -6, and 2 more...

Yep a translation is better than nothing, but MTLs are not translations they are just some bullshit. If you want something that has been out for 10 years to be translated don't be a cheap ass and put a bounty up for it or don't complain.

Base +6, Scumbini +42, herpderp5545 -8, kintustis +6, Braltewrakcus +10, Not Benedict +6, The14thNoah +12, Sanguine09 -7

@beazulbub
Rough Translation exists for stuff like this but I don't think the uploader is interested in switching gears doing this several times so there's not much point in going through all the effort that goes into the comment it requires (though I do feel like there has been a slight improvement since the first upload, might just be wishful thinking though). It does not care about whether something is a human translation or a machine translation though, as both can be catastrophically incompetent, it does require the gallery to be a translation. It can only be added by people who have proven that they know the languages they're dealing with and can handle the responsibility that comes with such a restricted tag.

Rewrite (which does not require anything to add, but will be reported on forum for removal if incorrect. Moderators (who can see who added those tags) can then decide to ban users who are the cause of those incorrect tags too often for their liking) is often claimed to apply but this is in fact not true, Machine translations are tagged as translations, I've complained to those maintaining the wiki multiple times now that if they want the intention for something to be a translation to be the only relevant factor for Rewrite vs Translated they should put it in the damm description already but the mods are complacent with this situation because they can also just ban anyone missing out on those unmentioned rules from being able to tag ever again.

There's a lot more to this than it being MTL or not, someone who knows what they're doing like Ancient Alien can polish up MTL to read just fine albeit not always 100% accurate, while we got people like Laruffi around to prove even the worst MTL has gotten ahead of some human "translators".

The best way to ensure we have accurate translations is to either stop bitching and start learning to do it yourself, use your virtual EH currency to put up a bounty here https://e-hentai.org/bounty.php or open your real wallet and commission someone competent directly.

Last edited on 29 May 2022, 22:58.

Base +17, kintustis +6, Sanguine09 -7, GearZeroSky +20

@tealsack The Poor Grammar tag was never removed, merely renamed. This by itself shows you have a pretty poor understanding of how this site actually works and are just using your imagination to fill in the gaps, exactly the shit you hate the MTLers for, quite ironic isn't it?

It also wasn't suddenly gated out of the blue, it had very specific rules regarding its use for ages, they merely had to get stricter about enforcing them because people like you were too busy refining their conspiracy theories to read the fucking rules. The slight increase in MP required should not he be an issue if you actually contribute to the site in any meaningful way for a while. Though I suppose with your track record regarding these tags you're probably among the few people to actually get negative MP out of their tagging accuracy so it might be an uphill battle for you.

If you want to suggest new tags you're free to do so on the forum, the addition of the Rough Translation tag has proven that even if every mod out there disagrees with a tag, Tenboro can enforce democracy, keeping up to date with what happens over there would also make these tagging changes less scary and confusing for you as you'd actually get to see why people are suggesting them, as well as having the option to oppose those changes.

Last edited on 29 May 2022, 08:14.

Base +18, i dont care -6, Sanguine09 -7

@tealsack "Prior to this, any MTL'd gallery would be tagged with the "poor grammar" tag." Yes. Incorrectly. MTL does not automatically mean the grammar is bad.

(Also, Glovelove. is definitely not a mod.)

Base +26, Mrsuperhappy +53, IS IRIS +6, Sanguine09 -7

@atasitian
Yes you are right. They could be edited well. I should have made my comment more nuanced. I was just operating on the lowest possible bar for said tag to be added. As to say that even something that is borderline incomprehensible now has a barrier needed to be tagged.

Base +9

@tealsack You claim you used the tag accurately....yet you show that you have no fucking clue what "accurate use" for the tag actually was.

Quoting the tag description here:
"Any 3rd party translation consisting of a required amount of sentences with a grammatical or spelling error. The requirement is defined by: Either 25% of the number of total translated pages (rounded to the nearest whole number), or 10, whichever is higher.
Notes: Point.png A gallery comment MUST detail the mistakes, otherwise the tag is invalid. The comment needs to be written in a constructive, respectful manner.
Translations containing grammatical or spelling errors that occurred in the original work are excluded.
Nits like end-of-sentence punctuation and capitalization do not count towards the requirement count but may be included in the comment.
Rewrites do not qualify."

It was incorrect on those many MTLs because the requirement for a comment was almost never met, I too have misused the tag in the past because I assumed having to write the comment was redundant if the tag applied to literally every text box, but luckily I didn't bother very often as I only became an active tagger after learning that this comment was considered absolutely mandatory no matter how bad it was. But the tag had never been intended to indicate something was MTL, as mentioned before there's plenty of MTLers out there like Ancient Alien that at least use proper grammar and spelling, and a bunch more that you wouldn't even recognize as MTL without being able to read the raw that have been active long before the recent spike in activity. The tag never for branding those cases, only for indicating poor grammar/spelling. (which is commonly paired with MTL but far from mutually inclusive with it.) There were some assumptions earlier that MTL might be taggable as rewrite as assumptions had to be made to fill the gaps where google translate failed, or DeepL made those random guesses automatically and called it a feature; But it has been clarified by moderators that Machine Translation is still considered Translation because the Rewrite tag was intended for people making shit up on purpose instead of just translating very poorly. Not making this clear enough in the tag description, combined with the punishment you can get for not following this expanded definition that isn't documented properly reeks of foul play a lot more real than any of the conspiracies you've mentioned and its disgusting.

The reason I'm estimating your accuracy to be piss poor is that this is the only thing you really appear to care about when it comes to tagging, and the system bases your accuracy statistic on the ratio of tags that you voted on that aren't killed, so if you've been upvoting all those cases of Poor Grammar being applied to MTL without the required content, that would mean a large percentage of your voted tags has been deemed invalid, resulting in a very low accuracy (does depend on response time of Vigilante, allegedly there are circumstances where it will not alter your accuracy when a tag gets killed but the specifics of this are not public knowledge)

https://repo.e-hentai.org/tools.php?act=taglist&uid=

You can check your own accuracy by adding your own userid to this url, should be noted that officially anything under 95% is at risk of ban, anyone below 85% will not be treated as active taggers for the purpose of voting on suggestions for new tags even if they manage to dodge the banhammer (they get an extra vote if they're considered to be an active tagger). People above 95% can still be banned if their tag history shows malicious use of fjorded or commonly blacklisted tags or attempts of trying to inflate their accuracy by upvoting everything randomly.

Atm power is not the issue for the Rough Grammar tag, what it lacks is the motivation to write the comments, you can make those comments without MP15 and request someone else to start the tag based on your comment here https://forums.e-hentai.org/index.php?showtopic=184081 I'd gladly be the one voting it for you if the comment requirement has been met properly. This is the exact same way low power users have been able to contribute to starting other power restricted tags, I agree its a bit annoying but once you really get going on tagging you'll be able to start them yourself by the time you get the hang of it. Finding poor grammar isn't that hard, finding enough of it to validate the tag is still fairly doable; But typing it all out along with corrections (and without venting frustration with the poor quality through insults that would risk the comment getting downvoted for harassment to boot) takes a lot of time you could spend fapping to something else or doing something more productive, so pretty much no one bothers doing it.

Last edited on 29 May 2022, 09:46.

Base +18, Mrsuperhappy -40, Sanguine09 -7

@Glovelove.
1: "I too have misused the tag in the past because I assumed having to write the comment was redundant if the tag applied to literally every text box, but luckily I didn't bother very often as I only became an active tagger after learning that this comment was considered absolutely mandatory no matter how bad it was."

If this was the pre-existing requirement that was needed to be met before tagging, then you are in the right, and I am wrong. Then based off your current explanation, I have wrongfully used the tag more than a few times then. I had always assumed if more or less the whole thing was poor that you would be fine commenting "whole upload has terrible grammar" Then tag it as such, cause as you said, it is redundant. And I only ever tagged galleries that were truly piss-poor in English all throughout.

2: "Finding poor grammar isn't that hard, finding enough of it to validate the tag is still fairly doable; But typing it all out along with corrections (and without venting frustration with the poor quality through insults that would risk the comment getting downvoted for harassment to boot) takes a lot of time you could spend fapping to something else or doing something more productive, so pretty much no one bothers doing it."

I also agree with this. The biggest factor in my opinion is that these individuals or groups do not care. Like you said in your comment. It takes a lot of time, and for zero results on the part of the reader is not a good trade. They just go back to posting again, or another machine translator pops up.

Only example I have on hand at the moment would be, Sankaku Apron latest translation, which was piss-poor, I mean mistakes on nearly every bubble, and people ate it up. It is sitting at a 4.21 average star rating, with no rough translation tag, and people thanking the uploader for their work. It's disheartening to see this infestation grow.

3: "There were some assumptions earlier that MTL might be taggable as rewrite as assumptions had to be made to fill the gaps where google translate failed, or DeepL made those random guesses automatically and called it a feature; But it has been clarified by moderators that Machine Translation is still considered Translation because the Rewrite tag was intended for people making shit up on purpose instead of just translating very poorly. Not making this clear enough in the tag description, combined with the punishment you can get for not following this expanded definition that isn't documented properly reeks of foul play a lot more real than any of the conspiracies you've mentioned and its disgusting."

It is situations like this, coupled with that extremely detailed tracking documentation on groups that machine translate that lead me to have conspiracies theories. It really does look like something nefarious is going on to me. It's looks like everyone is walking on eggshells or gets punished except the people that upload low effort MTL with no consequence.

Last edited on 29 May 2022, 10:07.

Base +9

Yeah the comment requirement has been there all along. All they changed was

>changing the name to be a bit less negative (we don't do negative tags around here, at least that's what mods want to argue, 1image tags are effectively negative tags, and those have low scat, low guro, ect. to function as negative tags for the people who do want to see presence on those tags, effectively solving the negative tag issue with a double negative. Rough Grammar and Rough Translation only dodged this distinction because we could argue uploaders can use these comments to improve their upload and other editors/translators could use the tag to find stuff that needs to be fixed if the original uploader couldn't be assed)
>Make the system check if you've posted a comment before starting the tag. (System can't check if the comment is actually valid, but its a ankle high hurde for people that don't even know about the comment requirement to stumble on)
>Added the MP requirement
>Bumped the standard MP requirement from 12 to 15 because 12 was too easy to get without growing into the responsibility so to say.
>Clarified that punctation issues were never really intended to count, because the raw doesn't really have it either and just like keeping japanese honorifics, it partially comes down to personal prefence on how much accuracy to sacrifice for the sake of localisation

And I played a role in this, the misuse of the Poor Grammar tag had reached the boiling point where mods were starting the circlejerk discussion on deleting the tag entirely, I jumped in and fiercely argued in favor of actually trying to enforce the restrictions instead of calling it a lost cause after a full decade of just waiting for the problem to magically fix itself without any of the restrictions other tags vulnerable to abuse had gotten.

I take a fairly neutral position when it comes to the MTL situation because most people hating on it have no fucking clue what they're talking about, there's a lot more nuance to MTL quality than the black and white situation people make it out to be. Companies like google invest heavily into making their MTL service a lot more reliable and MTL has progressed a lot in the last decade, but Japanese is still a pretty hard language for them because of how heavy it relies on context, so the resulting accuracy depends on multiple factors like
>How MTL-friendly/complex the text is, really depends on the content, stuff like puns are easily lost while MTL can actually reach 100% accuracy on some simple stuff.
>Which software you're using. Google Translate just shows very clearly when it is struggling with something and you can dissect the ttranslation word by word, which is neat for those that do intend to learn. DeepL on the other hand just does the guesswork automatically, optimal for those that prioritize having comphrensible English over translation accuracy
>How much the uploader edits the output to make it more readable.
>How well the uploader speaks Japanese, if you're like me and use it as a memory aid or to deal with the occasional obsure/new kanji, you'll barely use it at all and recognize when Google translate is fucking it up and you need to just grab a dictionary or try harder at remembering the right word, if you're an average weeb you should at least recognize some shit is clearly wrong, and if you have no fucking clue what you're doing.......well its really rolling the dice on the text being "MTL-friendly" at that point, really shouldn't even be considering getting involved in scanlations at that stage.

It also comes with a lot of hate towards ESL as a more general slur, but ESL is way too broad of a term, it applies to an educated European more fluent in English than most victims of the American education system just as much as it applies to some random Filipino that knows some basic words and never learned English grammar. It also fundamentally misunderstands why people are doing it in English in the first place, most of the teaching resources (textbooks, learning apps, online lessons, etc. ) available, aside from maybe JP->CN are in JP->EN, someones native language might not even have them available at all no matter how much they search. Someone truly proficient in Japanese can translate to any other language they speak with ease, but for most people that are still learning with JP->EN resources that are actually available (doesn't even just apply to Southeast Asian languages either, those are a bit of a stereotype but Frisian, Sami and Irish are some examples of European languages that could be someones first/native language if they live in more rural areas that reject their countries' official language), the most comfortable way to translate to their native language would be JP->EN->??, Why make that extra step just to appeal to a smaller demographic? I fully agree fluency in English should be required to translate to it, but assuming ESL is mutually exclusive with fluency is complete bullshit. I can personally attest that there's ESL speakers out there who are more fluent in English than in their native language because of how much time they spent on the international internet.

I don't really care to defend low quality MTL but I do take a stand against toxicity and gatekeeping. And now that I'm an active tagger myself, the constant misuse of tags is frustrating because I consider it my shared responsibility to clean that mess up.

As for the moderators, they're people, just like us they fuck up sometimes. I strongly disagree with some of their takes but I do respect effort.

Last edited on 29 May 2022, 19:25.

Base +18, Sanguine09 -7